Why is it that every time someone with a cartoony style asks for shading advice, people start talking about ambient occlusion and reflected light, which the person who requested the advice is unlikelly to use (and if they do use it, chances are that it'll be treated as a 2nd light source)?
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Lucyan
@cyangorilla
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Maybe it has to do with the vagueness of the request or the interlocutor repeating what they saw somewhere. In short, it depends of what 'cartoony' means whether or not the artist might care too much about principles of light and shadow. It's always helpful to be specific when asking for advice for mainly 2 things: 1. the person who replies doesn't waste their time, 2. the person who asks the question gets a useful reply.
Regardless of the reason, AO and reflected light are not alien to 2D cartoony art styles. AO is very commonly used via line work and reflected light generally informs how to color your shadows. Both can be very helpful if you are trying to express volume and space. Depends on the production, but it's not uncommon to have 2D cartoon characters inhabit a more realistic world (2D Disney) or a 2D cell-shaded world that has real volume as an objective instead of being purely flat.
Understanding fundamentals of light, such as ambient occlusion and reflected light (which in a lot of cases IS ambient light) can only be helpful when transmitting your ideas to a viewer. It's also helpful to not rely on recipes and instead be capable of making the decision of using these tools.
Many times I see 'color the lights' as a piece of advice, but why is that? Well, your shadows mean that the direct light source that is hitting the rest of the character is not hitting that area. Does that mean that no light is hitting it? Most of the time it means that reflected or ambient light is the one allowing us to see it. When you are translating this into a flat style, it means your shadows are not just a black blot (although this could be an artistic choice). You mention this in your parenthesis, but that's the case every time. Reflected and ambient light are always an additional light source.
Similarly you can use ambient occlusion to show that 2 surfaces are touching instead of them just overlapping visually.
I have two questions, faces are really hard for me to make, it always seems off, how does artist do it? And how long does it take to create your own art-style?
Faces question
Practicing faces is the best way to get better at them. Getting reference helps a lot too. You likely have a face, hopefully, and you can use it while drawing. I sometimes set up a mirror next to my PC and do the face I'm drawing. You can also take a photo or get one online.
Art style question
For most people, their style is the result of them drawing or painting how they like. It comes from observing art you love and adding some of their elements into your process. It can also be a very purposeful process of getting an specific look. If you feel your style is still not 'there', it can mean that you are not skilled enough (YET) to pull off what your ideal look would be or that you haven't tried to move away from the 'what am I drawing/painting' to the additional 'but also, how am I doing it?'. From my experience, your style (unless it's VERY purposeful and specific) it's often noticed by others and not so much by yourself.
Is there a general order of operations you use when adding details like shading to a drawing or do you just go all in all at once.
Depends on the piece. I've been trying to be more orderly when painting lately. I prefer having a good drawing first, then a good base for the colors, then basic shadows, then details and rendering. Most of the time I just end up going back and forth to different parts of the painting (bad habit). An important thing that I try very hard to keep in mind is to focus the details on the focal area and not all over the background.
@cyangorilla Using a mirror for reference is actually a good idea I might try that when I practice next time, and I guess art style really is something you'll just develop with time, maybe years even.
Another question if you are willing to answer, what do you do when you feel like the brush or pen you are using isn't fit for the "job", do you research new types of brushes and pen or do you make new ones on your own?
I always make my own brushes. In fact all of my current brushes are the result of the previous iteration not being up to the task at some point. If I feel something doesn't work I try to figure out why and change it. I might look at someone else's brush and try to get the same look.
There is nothing wrong with downloading brush sets, though. I can be tremendously useful when you want something to 'just work'.
How does one draw backgrounds with the right perspective for their characters? For me, it's second nature, but I saw @SquishdotFLA 's animation of Big Hoss, and I want to help him with backgrounds.
Apart from learning linear perspective and keeping in mind the horizon in every scene there isn't much more to it, structurally speaking.
Backgrounds have character too. Does the room of a angsty teen look the same as an outgoing, cheerful one? Well, you can show those changes on how the room is decorated, the clothing laying about, posters on the wall, whether or not the curtains are shut, etc.
@cyangorila I will make one last question, is buying a bigger tablet, or one that has the screen display, makes the drawing process much easier or is it mostly skill based? I use the Huion 4000LPI small Inspiroy - 420 black which is a tiny one and sometimes I wonder if It was a bigger I would've had an easier time with a more expensive one.
Thanks for the help you were really helpful, Your art is amazing btw I hope one day I could reach your level :)
A bigger tablet will allow you to use your wrist and arm better, giving you more control and options to draw. The closer the size of the tablet to the size of your monitor, the more accurate your strokes will be relative to what you see on screen. For those reasons I would say that a bigger tablet is a better option. Doesn't have to be huge, necessarily. I'm not super fond of pen displays as they have a tendency to be too warm and to have dead pixels appear over time. I also don't like bending over to draw.
I started drawing with a Wacom Bamboo Pen&Touch that was pretty tiny, then I moved on to an Intuos Pro M and now I use an L. My brother has an A4 sized Huion and it totally works too.
Thank you for your nice words! I'm glad I was helpful and hope you reach your goals :D
If I started using a drawing tablet to draw instead of my laptop's touchscreen, would my style change all that drastically? The sketching techniques I use traditionally are nothing like what I do virtually.
They would have the potential to change, as you would be able to replicate your traditional style better. It would open a whole lot of possibilities.
What's a good way to learn for complete beginners? My level of talent is stick figure and I want to be able to draw at least half way decent. Any art programs you'd recommend?
A good way to start is by copying things you like. Simple ones at first so it's not too frustrating when it inevitably doesn't look like the original one. Copying has a purpose, that is learning how to create a drawing by relating each line to the next, by understanding proportions, etc. I would suggest you also draw what comes to mind even if it's shit compared to when you copy existing things. Everybody goes through that. An in-between level is to draw something you have copied successfully slightly different (for a character, you could change the pose).
Why do I suggest starting like this and not with fundamentals books/courses/videos? Fundamentals are boring for most people to start from nothing. If I say 'go check out these videos about drawing the head and draw 50 bald men a day' you'll probably say 'I just want to draw cute fighting game girls'. I think it's better to see that you have the physical ability to draw your favorite character by reproducing an existing drawing, and THEN realize 'well, I should brush up on drawing the human figure so I can draw this character however I want'.
A lot of the time people don't draw better because they think they can't. If you copy it, that's it, you've drawn it. You are learning, you need to imitate first. After you can imitate things, you get the knowledge that allows you to create from scratch, and you practice a lot to be able to use that knowledge whenever you want.
I do recommend doing line drills, perspective drills, and figure drawing drills, but if you only do those, I bet it's going to become tedious and you won't see results. I've seen countless people never get out of that studying limbo, where they will generate the most perfect studies, but they can't draw a 'cute punk ninja girl with a giant shuriken covered in graffitti' without it looking like they've never drawn before. There are tons of places to get those drills: drawabox.com/lessons, kato_academy on instagram, manga_materials_en on instagram as well, the book perspective made easy, the book fun with a pencil. My personal favorite is to draw things in front of you so you get used to seeing in an abstract way.
@cyangorilla Thank you for the reply!
No problem!
Regarding programs, Krita is excellent and free. The interface is very friendly and there really isn't anything you can't draw with it.
Do you know any cool resources for shading bc I suck so bad ;_;
I've always found this tutorial by Doxy to be great:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yurgwhzyhyznu6q/Doxy%20-%20Doxy%27s%20Notes%3B%20Cel%20Shading%20Tips.png?dl=0
Has drawing changed the way you see things on a day to day basis, or can you 'switch on/switch off' the artistic eye at will?
For me I mainly do programming these days, but I don't really think about how things are made in general unless I am involved in its production.
Also, this may sound like a stupid question but how do you pick up from the middle of a drawing? Suppose you stopped for the day and you had to return to it later, how would you know what you had to draw, or if the vision for the final product did not change as time passed?
It did. I was already the kind of person who stares at things endlessly, but now I had things to look for. If I'm walking down the street I always look at the trees to see how they react to light, at the buildings to see how the shade side changes colors based on what building it has across the street, I look at how people walk, etc. I make many mental notes about small details that I find interesting, like how white socks give your feet a bit of a halo of light in the morning sun.
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For the second question, it's all in the sketch. If you have sketch that has enough information so you know where you are headed, you can pick up at any time. The more detailed the sketch, the closer the final will end up being to the original idea. Sometimes, the time between sessions brings new ideas that you can introduce to the drawing, which can be really cool. I also make notes, so I don't forget specific things that I haven't gotten to finish.
what is the process to shading and coloring? Like making an art piece that started out with an outline, have no outline at the end, cause that really is messing me up.
You paint over the lines until they are not there anymore.
Another option is to blend the lines into the colors with a mixing brush or something similar. Make sure to have some color in your lines so you are not mixing black into every color.
@cyangorilla Thanks again, dude.
What do you recommend for building your skills, especially if it's something you're not good at? I've been off and on trying to get into art for years, but most of what I make isn't great and I judge myself before I finish. Is it better to finish a lot of bad arts or a few good arts?
Check out what I said to TuffNuts for a general road to improvement. Don't be scared of failure, everybody has folders full of absolutely shit drawings that are embarrassing. You can always try again after figuring out what doesn't work.
I don't know the answer for the last question. Dedicate time to your drawings. If they come out bad, try again, if they come out good, see how you can improve. The amount will depend on you.
What Are Biggest Inspirateions
Myself, because I'm the greatest.
(jk, the list is too long)
@UnculturedMutt @cyangorilla I never really thought about how the tne of the scene and personality of characters can impact te background. I'll definitely think about his more (along with learning perspective lol) Thanks!
Do you start in grayscale and then color over those values, or do you drop flat colors in and go from there?
I have been trying to fill in lineart using greyscale values and I still have a very weak understanding of how they translate to specific colors.
Do you, personally, think it's very important to learn fthe skill for digital art? Coloring in general, I am not very good at, cel-shading, painting or otherwise.
I prefer starting with color but I've used both.
If you are going to do things that have color in them, digital or not, you'll need to learn how to color.
Any tips on making art faster? I think I am too slow when it comes to art making.
As with everything, speed comes with practice.
Try to figure out what's the actual time things take you. It's easy to just waste time because you have it. Instead, say 'I have 2 hours and THAT'S IT' and actually stop at 2 hours. You'll mess up a couple of times and then you'll want to start being very orderly in your approach so you don't waste any time.
I suggest reading this too:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_law
Thetageist
Just tell me about any techniques you’ve learned from digital painting that could be applied to something more cartoony. I’d be happy to learn!
cyangorilla
I don't really know any tools that couldn't be applied to cartoons. All the fundamentals are the same and the rest is how you use them (style). For example, clear value distinction between elements so the images can be understood quickly or how using silhouettes effectively means way more in the end than the little details, that kind of thing.